Note: Please don’t miss UltraMom’s post just before this one. They were posted at about the same time.
Here is the second 2008 presidential debate:
Commentary (no time stamps, but roughly in chronological order:
It takes some real nerve to continue mischaracterizing someone’s position after they’ve just corrected your misinformation. McCain’s BBOR (Big Brass Ones Rating) goes up.
Pretty horribly condescending to state that you think the person who just asked you a question on the economy may not have heard of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac until the crisis hit.
McCain really likes to compare things with nailing jello to the wall, an admirable hobby I’ll admit.
McCain states that the last person to raise taxes during tough economic times was Herbert Hoover. I guess he’s trying to stick some of the association with Hoover that he is covered in to Obama.
For those of you not familiar:
McCain on Sept 15, 2008: “The fundamentals of the economy are strong.”
Hoover on October 25, 1929, the day after Black Tuesday: “The fundamental business of the country, that is the production and distribution of commodities, is on a sound and prosperous basis.”
Following on from McCain’s last time someone raised taxes statement: According to Paul Krugman, Bush’ wartime tax cuts are the only ever in the history of the world
McCain lies about Obama’s tax plan, Obama put in the tough position of having to dump, for the most part, the question about Social Security and Medicare to address the McCain lies. Fortunately McCain immediately comes out as a (dare I say) douchebag (apparently I do) by making a snarky comment about how he’ll answer the question.
What is this 94 times voting for tax increases or against decreases thing McCain keep talking about? Note to self: go figure out where this talking point comes from.
I get the impression that McCain couldn’t remember Ingrid’s name, but did a reasonably good job of playing it off.
McCain on Nuclear power = nonsense
I think Obama was talking about the military developing the Internet, not the computer. It is possible he was talking about ENIAC but he said it was for use in communications, ENIAC was for generating artillery firing tables.
McCain kindly tees up the Iraq issue for Obama to knock out of the park. Obama schooled him on it last time so it was really nice of him to bring it up again, and in such a gift-wrapped fashion. Obama doesn’t understand...
This one is out of order, but what was up with McCain calling Obama “this one”?
I’ve had enough of “fundamental difference”, “my opponent”, “my friends”!
A cool hand at the tiller?
My first priority right after...?
exacerbating our reputation?
Ooh, here we go setting Obama up again, don’t talk about talking softly and carrying a big stick Mr. Bomb Bomb Iran. Ah crap, that was bad for you wasn’t it? Everyone but you saw it coming my friend.
Tom Brokaw is doing a crappy job, and he is whiney.
Aha, now I understand: if your old veteran friend (who incidentally did NOT sound like he was joking) declares that we should bomb Iran, it is perfectly ok for you as president to do the same
. It is all about who you are following I guess.
Another out of order one: McCain says we’ve been to the four corners of the world. Does this mean it actually is flat after all?
Again with McCain’s secret plan to get Bin Laden, that we will not be able to avail ourselves of unless we make him president.
McCain’s hands ALWAYS look awkward. I’m the same way, but mostly just on the dance floor.
Man that looked into his eyes and saw three letters, KG and B joke is awkward.
John McCain does sound fluent when he speaks about the Baltic region, which is refreshing since he seems really poorly educated with regard to the middle east.
But we are all Georgians now was simply ridiculous.
Obama constantly talking about how he wrote a letter or made a statement warning about something is grating. If he was so aware of the problem why didn’t he actually take some kind of action?
Would like to know where this muddle through bit he keeps attributing to McCain is coming from, will have to google.
Turns out it is pretty out of context:
McCain is blinking and smiling blankly, as soon as the cut to him we’re going to be hit with a lame joke.
ah “Maybe” that guy is a laugh riot.
Again, precondition is not the same word as preparation.
McCain being able to pat the former petty officer on the back and shake hands while Obama was unable to approach was good for McCain.
Obama looks so much smarter than McCain when they talk about meeting with enemy leaders. McCain should stop bringing it up.
I guess Peggy is asking about the known unknowns.
Good line about learning what he doesn’t know by asking Michelle.
McCain’s eyelids seem to be voice-activated. Whenever he speaks he starts blinking frantically.
Well, that’s all folks, get out of the way so Tom can read his script.
None of these debates are actually debates, this has been the worst. McCain didn’t come out like a rabid lying bulldog as most pundits were predicting. Overall I’d say Obama won, though this format is much more favorable for McCain as there is less opportunity for being called on lies and half-truths
In Addition, for anyone who hasn’t been able to track it down yet, here is the first debate:
Let’s have your analysis boys and girls. Incidentally in the first debate the beadiness of Jim Lehrer’s eyes is off limits. In both debates McCain’s constant statements that Obama doesn’t understand something he seems to understand perfectly well and usually better than McCain are very well within bounds. Ready. Set. GO!
on October 9th, 2008 12:29 PM UltraMom (Carlin, NV) said:
Your first video is “no longer available.”
on October 9th, 2008 12:52 PM UltraBob (Zushi, Japan) said:
OK, it is fixed now. Youtube links to the video even in their own debate coverage so I don’t know what is up with it being removed. Google video to the rescue.
on October 10th, 2008 04:48 AM UltraJessica said:
Out of curiosity, UltraBob, is Obama perfect?
on October 10th, 2008 06:29 AM UltraBob (Zushi, Japan) said:
No he isn’t. There is a little bit of criticism of him in the commentary as well, but I didn’t have a lot of gripe with his performance thus far. There are things I disagree with him on, but far less than with McCain. May I suggest looking at the Myspace Debates Page and taking the issues quiz to see where you stand on actual policy in relation to the two candidates? You can also download a pdf version if you’d like. I wear my heart on my sleeve in that I’m an Obama supporter (I have already voted for him), and that I believe a McCain presidency would be a disaster for the country. This is a personal blog and I’m not trying to be fair and balanced, but I am educated on the issues and pay close attention to the elections and the candidates.
on October 10th, 2008 06:45 AM John (Nashville) said:
Jessica, if you have a particular problem with his analysis why don’t you provide us with your own take on the debate?
on October 10th, 2008 09:40 AM UltraBob (Zushi, Japan) said:
OK kids, I finally had a chance to watch the end of the debate and finish up the analysis. Now I really must insist that you give me your take on it. Also upcoming sometime soon should I be able to scrounge the time and ambition: as post on the Japanese Nationalized Health Care system and how it compares to healthcare in the U.S. Also a brief post on why I voted for Obama, why you should do the same, and why you shouldn’t vote for McCain. Jessica, I’m assuming you are a McCain supporter, and I welcome your comments in support of McCain. You have access to write actual full posts on the site, and if you would like to do so I’ll provide you with a quick video explaining how exactly to do so. This comment is turning into a post in its own right so I’ll wrap it up here.
on October 10th, 2008 02:35 PM UltraJessica said:
I guess I better come fully armed if I ever get into a political discussion with you two guys. I have not watched the presidential debate and, hopefully, I may get time to watch it in the next week or so. My comment was made because the majority of the post was a listing of McCain’s faults, but I’m glad that you admit that Obama has his faults. McCain has his faults and so does Palin (but not in the style department - I wouldn’t mind raiding her closet!). Nobody, not even me, is perfect. I’m not going to agree with all of Obama’s policies, and I’m also not going to agree with all of McCain’s. I don’t agree with all of Bush’s policies (bailout anyone??), but I do like most of them. I don’t think any President would make me 100% happy, to be quite honest. However, this admission does not mean that I will be willing to change my position on who to vote for. I’ve made my mind up on McCain. And, Bob, thanks for letting me know that I can post on this website. I may have to one day, but I haven’t been following the race closely enough to write an entire post on it. I really do enjoy reading all of your posts on the debates even though I may not agree with you!
on October 12th, 2008 09:32 PM Billie (Cheyenne, Wyo) said:
Stand your ground Jessica. Don’t let these two Obama bullies push you around.
on October 13th, 2008 12:32 PM John (Nashville) said:
Billie, I would also invite you to give us your take. Asking the other side to explain their position is hardly “bullying” Or was that unpatriotic? Am I “telegraphing my punches?”
By the way, note to McCain, if you want to try and fight the perception that you are ancient try not to refer to things like telegraphs.
on October 14th, 2008 09:39 AM UltraBob (Zushi, Japan) said:
OK, back from a long weekend, refreshed and ready to go. Jessica let’s start with what appears to be your most deeply passionate argument as judged by exclamation points: Sarah Palin’s unimpeachable sense of style:
Do you know how many tacky couches had to die to make that coat?
on October 14th, 2008 10:33 AM UltraBob (Zushi, Japan) said:
OK, back to your post Jessica. You say that you haven’t been following the race well enough to write about it, and you say you have made up your mind on McCain and are not willing to change your mind. I don’t want to seem confrontational, but that is unacceptable. This is probably the most important election of your lifetime, and you shouldn’t weigh in on it without educating yourself. I can give you a basic rundown of each candidates stated positions on most major issues and have been following their speeches and activities closely since the primaries kicked off. That is what I base my position on.
I implore you to either educate yourself or refrain from voting against your best interests based on, to use Stephen Colbert’s word, truthiness.
What issues are important to you? What are the three things that you think are the most important things for the country to focus on going forward? How do McCain’s and Obama’s positions on these things differ, and in the case of McCain’s policies how have these policies bourne out in practice during the Bush administration? I encourage you to consider a few of these questions before going into the voting booth. I think you would agree that coming into a discussion with your mind closed to any possibility that there is some information that might change your mind is foolish.
on October 14th, 2008 02:27 PM UltraJessica said:
Yes, the coat was not the best choice, but, overall, she has a good sense of style. I followed your advice and looked up Obama’s economic policy. I got it off of his website. First of all, where is he going to get all of this money? Second of all, $50 billion to jumpstart the economy pales in comparison to the $700 billion that Bush is putting in. His tax cuts are good for the everyday American, but he can easily say that because the occupants of the $250,000 and up tax brackets pay about 80% off all the income taxes already. I also don’t agree with all of the regulation that he wants to put on the mortgage companies. The subprime mortgage crisis is not solely the bank’s fault. A large portion of the blame lies with poorly educated everyday American people. People do not understand credit. It is a really simple thing really, but they never take the time to figure out what the heck they are doing. If people managed their credit well, they would all have good credit scores so they would all qualify for competitive interest rates on their mortgages. There would be no subprime mortgages. What I would really like to see is comprehensive financial education in high school. The only thing homeowners need protection from is themselves. Good credit is not hard to achieve. Plus, Obama wants to make it possible to fill out a tax return in 5 minutes. How ridiculous is that! No wonder people are missing out on deductions! Obama would also like to provide a tax credit for homeowners so they can deduct their home mortgage interest payments from their taxes. That tax credit already exists. This goes back to the spending more than 5 minutes on your tax return. I like that he supports foreign trade. Protectionism is not a good thing. However, I would like to know exactly how he is going to change CAFTA and NAFTA. I support the privatization of social security (which Obama opposes). I can manage my money much better than the government ever can. I strongly oppose the use of embryonic stem cells for research. I believe that life begins at fertilization so those embryos are living human beings. I support stem cell research from other sources, but not from embryos. Along those same lines, I am pro-life. If the woman did not want a baby she should’ve kept her knees together. Or at least used birth control. Her child should not have to pay for her mistake. His plan to make college more affordable is a good idea, but instead of spending 100 hours in public service the kids could just get a job. I don’t like his section about supporting family farms. News to Obama. The family farm is now much bigger. Size doesn’t make it into a corporate farm. A lot of family farms are incorporated because it helps reduce the tax burden and create succession plans. And what exactly are his CAFO regulations going to be? Something that his education plan is how the ADD and ADHD fiasco is going to be handled. Kindergartens and elementary schools are cutting recess. It is a necessary part of a kid’s day. In spite of all of these things, the real deal breakers for me are abortion and embryonic stem cell research. I don’t understand how somebody can claim to be a Christian and then support the destruction of human life. Its not just Christians that value human life. Its every religion in the world except for the religion of self. And maybe the Incans and Mayans who believed in human sacrifice. There are my views on Obama. Maybe tomorrow I’ll read all about McCain, but right now I’ve got to go to bed.
on October 14th, 2008 02:27 PM UltraJessica said:
Wow. That was long.
on October 14th, 2008 09:51 PM UltraBob (Zushi, Japan) said:
Wow, I must say I didn’t expect you to come back with so much. Impressive for a day of reading. I can see right now some places where I disagree with you on principal and some flaws in your argument, but to give a proper response will take some time, and a family issue is taking up quite a bit of time right now so it may be a little while before I can come back with many good answers. Before I leave to get back to the issues at hand though, didn’t you just say that you were against the bailout? Is this some other $700 billion that you are talking about? If you are referring to the bailout, I think it was the wrong package and that we are likely to have to come back and put together another package soon, but it isn’t really Bush’s 700 billion the house ad senate negotiated a bill and Bush signed it. The 3 page proposal that came out of the Whitehouse was insane. insulting, and was immediately shot down.
on October 14th, 2008 09:53 PM UltraBob (Zushi, Japan) said:
P.S. I think this may be the best comment conversation we’ve ever had on DD, I hope more people will jump in with something of substance. Billie? Chenoa? Jim? FibroBlast?
on October 15th, 2008 02:50 AM UltraJessica said:
I found out a few others issues that I have with Obama. He favors gun control, which I oppose. I’m in favor of tighter control of mentally unstable people who go shoot up schools. I read today about a survey that Obama had filled out that stated that he was in favor of tighter control of guns. He now blames that response on a staffer who was filling out the survey for him. For a politician with the goal of becoming President, it was pretty foolish to allow a staffer to fill out the survey for him. I also don’t like his association with Bill Ayers. Even though the relationship may have been innocent, a Presidential hopeful can never be too careful about who he associates with. He should have been a bit wiser and not had any association with an unrepentent old terrorist. In terms of the bailout, I do not agree with it. I feel that the market should dictate who succeeds and who fails. The financial institutions being bailed out should fail. Its is the result of taking on too much risk. However, I understand the necessity of the bailout to save the entire economy. The health of those huge financial institutions is directly connected to the health of the economy as a whole. I still don’t like the idea of the government owning a large portion of private companies. I’m in favor of a policy that is a little more hands-off. But take time solving your family issues before you craft a response to me.
on October 15th, 2008 03:19 AM John (Nashville) said:
I’m not going to address most of this because Bob can do a better job when he has time, but as for your abortion concern… I think you need to re-examine McCain’s position. On this stance I actually admire him because of his respect for the process of government as established in America. He is personally against abortion but wouldn’t try to overturn by fiat the interpretation of the Constitution established by the United States Supreme Court. The Court is the interpreter of the Constitution, that is how America works, as for a constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion in the Constitution, no one is going to ever have the political capital to achieve the supermajority required to achieve that. So right there, McCain’s position on abortion becomes moot in a practical sense.
on October 15th, 2008 03:21 AM John (Nashville) said:
As for my poor grammar and potential typos, I had to write quickly in a break between classes.
on October 15th, 2008 03:23 AM John (Nashville) said:
... and respect for McCain gone. Okay so that used to be his position, but apparently in his never ending quest of whoring his beliefs to the hardcore right in order to get elected he has changed that position… yay consistent leadership…
on October 16th, 2008 12:06 AM UltraBob (Zushi, Japan) said:
OK, my reply is in and can be found here. The reply was too long so I’d thought I’d better start a new placeholder for the conversation to continue. Jessica, maybe you can write up your own analysis of the third presidential debate to make this site a bit more fair and balanced. Your opinion is most misguided but welcome.
Subscribe to blog
Your first video is “no longer available.”
OK, it is fixed now. Youtube links to the video even in their own debate coverage so I don’t know what is up with it being removed. Google video to the rescue.
Out of curiosity, UltraBob, is Obama perfect?
No he isn’t. There is a little bit of criticism of him in the commentary as well, but I didn’t have a lot of gripe with his performance thus far. There are things I disagree with him on, but far less than with McCain. May I suggest looking at the Myspace Debates Page and taking the issues quiz to see where you stand on actual policy in relation to the two candidates? You can also download a pdf version if you’d like. I wear my heart on my sleeve in that I’m an Obama supporter (I have already voted for him), and that I believe a McCain presidency would be a disaster for the country. This is a personal blog and I’m not trying to be fair and balanced, but I am educated on the issues and pay close attention to the elections and the candidates.
Jessica, if you have a particular problem with his analysis why don’t you provide us with your own take on the debate?
OK kids, I finally had a chance to watch the end of the debate and finish up the analysis. Now I really must insist that you give me your take on it. Also upcoming sometime soon should I be able to scrounge the time and ambition: as post on the Japanese Nationalized Health Care system and how it compares to healthcare in the U.S. Also a brief post on why I voted for Obama, why you should do the same, and why you shouldn’t vote for McCain. Jessica, I’m assuming you are a McCain supporter, and I welcome your comments in support of McCain. You have access to write actual full posts on the site, and if you would like to do so I’ll provide you with a quick video explaining how exactly to do so. This comment is turning into a post in its own right so I’ll wrap it up here.
I guess I better come fully armed if I ever get into a political discussion with you two guys. I have not watched the presidential debate and, hopefully, I may get time to watch it in the next week or so. My comment was made because the majority of the post was a listing of McCain’s faults, but I’m glad that you admit that Obama has his faults. McCain has his faults and so does Palin (but not in the style department - I wouldn’t mind raiding her closet!). Nobody, not even me, is perfect. I’m not going to agree with all of Obama’s policies, and I’m also not going to agree with all of McCain’s. I don’t agree with all of Bush’s policies (bailout anyone??), but I do like most of them. I don’t think any President would make me 100% happy, to be quite honest. However, this admission does not mean that I will be willing to change my position on who to vote for. I’ve made my mind up on McCain. And, Bob, thanks for letting me know that I can post on this website. I may have to one day, but I haven’t been following the race closely enough to write an entire post on it. I really do enjoy reading all of your posts on the debates even though I may not agree with you!
Stand your ground Jessica. Don’t let these two Obama bullies push you around.
Billie, I would also invite you to give us your take. Asking the other side to explain their position is hardly “bullying”
Or was that unpatriotic? Am I “telegraphing my punches?”
By the way, note to McCain, if you want to try and fight the perception that you are ancient try not to refer to things like telegraphs.
OK, back from a long weekend, refreshed and ready to go. Jessica let’s start with what appears to be your most deeply passionate argument as judged by exclamation points: Sarah Palin’s unimpeachable sense of style:
Do you know how many tacky couches had to die to make that coat?
OK, back to your post Jessica. You say that you haven’t been following the race well enough to write about it, and you say you have made up your mind on McCain and are not willing to change your mind. I don’t want to seem confrontational, but that is unacceptable. This is probably the most important election of your lifetime, and you shouldn’t weigh in on it without educating yourself. I can give you a basic rundown of each candidates stated positions on most major issues and have been following their speeches and activities closely since the primaries kicked off. That is what I base my position on.
I implore you to either educate yourself or refrain from voting against your best interests based on, to use Stephen Colbert’s word, truthiness.
What issues are important to you? What are the three things that you think are the most important things for the country to focus on going forward? How do McCain’s and Obama’s positions on these things differ, and in the case of McCain’s policies how have these policies bourne out in practice during the Bush administration? I encourage you to consider a few of these questions before going into the voting booth. I think you would agree that coming into a discussion with your mind closed to any possibility that there is some information that might change your mind is foolish.
Yes, the coat was not the best choice, but, overall, she has a good sense of style. I followed your advice and looked up Obama’s economic policy. I got it off of his website. First of all, where is he going to get all of this money? Second of all, $50 billion to jumpstart the economy pales in comparison to the $700 billion that Bush is putting in. His tax cuts are good for the everyday American, but he can easily say that because the occupants of the $250,000 and up tax brackets pay about 80% off all the income taxes already. I also don’t agree with all of the regulation that he wants to put on the mortgage companies. The subprime mortgage crisis is not solely the bank’s fault. A large portion of the blame lies with poorly educated everyday American people. People do not understand credit. It is a really simple thing really, but they never take the time to figure out what the heck they are doing. If people managed their credit well, they would all have good credit scores so they would all qualify for competitive interest rates on their mortgages. There would be no subprime mortgages. What I would really like to see is comprehensive financial education in high school. The only thing homeowners need protection from is themselves. Good credit is not hard to achieve. Plus, Obama wants to make it possible to fill out a tax return in 5 minutes. How ridiculous is that! No wonder people are missing out on deductions! Obama would also like to provide a tax credit for homeowners so they can deduct their home mortgage interest payments from their taxes. That tax credit already exists. This goes back to the spending more than 5 minutes on your tax return. I like that he supports foreign trade. Protectionism is not a good thing. However, I would like to know exactly how he is going to change CAFTA and NAFTA. I support the privatization of social security (which Obama opposes). I can manage my money much better than the government ever can. I strongly oppose the use of embryonic stem cells for research. I believe that life begins at fertilization so those embryos are living human beings. I support stem cell research from other sources, but not from embryos. Along those same lines, I am pro-life. If the woman did not want a baby she should’ve kept her knees together. Or at least used birth control. Her child should not have to pay for her mistake. His plan to make college more affordable is a good idea, but instead of spending 100 hours in public service the kids could just get a job. I don’t like his section about supporting family farms. News to Obama. The family farm is now much bigger. Size doesn’t make it into a corporate farm. A lot of family farms are incorporated because it helps reduce the tax burden and create succession plans. And what exactly are his CAFO regulations going to be? Something that his education plan is how the ADD and ADHD fiasco is going to be handled. Kindergartens and elementary schools are cutting recess. It is a necessary part of a kid’s day. In spite of all of these things, the real deal breakers for me are abortion and embryonic stem cell research. I don’t understand how somebody can claim to be a Christian and then support the destruction of human life. Its not just Christians that value human life. Its every religion in the world except for the religion of self. And maybe the Incans and Mayans who believed in human sacrifice. There are my views on Obama. Maybe tomorrow I’ll read all about McCain, but right now I’ve got to go to bed.
Wow. That was long.
Wow, I must say I didn’t expect you to come back with so much. Impressive for a day of reading. I can see right now some places where I disagree with you on principal and some flaws in your argument, but to give a proper response will take some time, and a family issue is taking up quite a bit of time right now so it may be a little while before I can come back with many good answers. Before I leave to get back to the issues at hand though, didn’t you just say that you were against the bailout? Is this some other $700 billion that you are talking about? If you are referring to the bailout, I think it was the wrong package and that we are likely to have to come back and put together another package soon, but it isn’t really Bush’s 700 billion the house ad senate negotiated a bill and Bush signed it. The 3 page proposal that came out of the Whitehouse was insane. insulting, and was immediately shot down.
P.S. I think this may be the best comment conversation we’ve ever had on DD, I hope more people will jump in with something of substance. Billie? Chenoa? Jim? FibroBlast?
I found out a few others issues that I have with Obama. He favors gun control, which I oppose. I’m in favor of tighter control of mentally unstable people who go shoot up schools. I read today about a survey that Obama had filled out that stated that he was in favor of tighter control of guns. He now blames that response on a staffer who was filling out the survey for him. For a politician with the goal of becoming President, it was pretty foolish to allow a staffer to fill out the survey for him. I also don’t like his association with Bill Ayers. Even though the relationship may have been innocent, a Presidential hopeful can never be too careful about who he associates with. He should have been a bit wiser and not had any association with an unrepentent old terrorist. In terms of the bailout, I do not agree with it. I feel that the market should dictate who succeeds and who fails. The financial institutions being bailed out should fail. Its is the result of taking on too much risk. However, I understand the necessity of the bailout to save the entire economy. The health of those huge financial institutions is directly connected to the health of the economy as a whole. I still don’t like the idea of the government owning a large portion of private companies. I’m in favor of a policy that is a little more hands-off. But take time solving your family issues before you craft a response to me.
I’m not going to address most of this because Bob can do a better job when he has time, but as for your abortion concern… I think you need to re-examine McCain’s position. On this stance I actually admire him because of his respect for the process of government as established in America. He is personally against abortion but wouldn’t try to overturn by fiat the interpretation of the Constitution established by the United States Supreme Court. The Court is the interpreter of the Constitution, that is how America works, as for a constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion in the Constitution, no one is going to ever have the political capital to achieve the supermajority required to achieve that. So right there, McCain’s position on abortion becomes moot in a practical sense.
As for my poor grammar and potential typos, I had to write quickly in a break between classes.
... and respect for McCain gone. Okay so that used to be his position, but apparently in his never ending quest of whoring his beliefs to the hardcore right in order to get elected he has changed that position… yay consistent leadership…
OK, my reply is in and can be found here. The reply was too long so I’d thought I’d better start a new placeholder for the conversation to continue. Jessica, maybe you can write up your own analysis of the third presidential debate to make this site a bit more fair and balanced. Your opinion is most misguided
but welcome.